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	<title>Comments for The Quintessence of Ham</title>
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	<link>http://quintessenceofham.org</link>
	<description>The story of his assiette of popes-eyes, the quintessence of ham for sauce, and the gravy of twenty-two partridges for sauce for a brace, was always beyond the credit of any sensible person. –William Verral, A Complete System of Cookery</description>
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		<title>Comment on Adoption of “New” Media by Historians by La escritura histórica digital: teoría y práctica &#171; Clionauta: Blog de Historia</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2010/10/28/adoption-of-new-media-by-historians/comment-page-1/#comment-21184</link>
		<dc:creator>La escritura histórica digital: teoría y práctica &#171; Clionauta: Blog de Historia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=279#comment-21184</guid>
		<description>[...] en línea y los archivos digitales en el curso de la producción de sus estudios, pero que no hacen uso de las muchas tecnologías diseñadas para ayudar en el análisis de datos y la composición de [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] en línea y los archivos digitales en el curso de la producción de sus estudios, pero que no hacen uso de las muchas tecnologías diseñadas para ayudar en el análisis de datos y la composición de […]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Survivorship Bias, Survivor Guilt, and Opportunity Cost, Oh My! by Sean</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2011/11/16/survivorship-bias-survivor-guilt-and-opportunity-cost-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-20287</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=746#comment-20287</guid>
		<description>Mark and I park our cars in the same garage: the scarcity of tenure-track positions ought to be the single greatest deterrent to graduate study. And I&#039;m virtually certain that this is the kind of &quot;professor&quot; Larry tells his students they&#039;re not going to become. My interest in supplementing the scarcity argument with opportunity cost is that it forces students (and us) to think a little more imaginatively about the real costs of graduate study. I didn&#039;t walk into a high-paying job directly out of college. I temped for something like $12 an hour, which turned into a $2000/month trial period learning more substantive technical things contracted at IBM, which turned into a $4000/month &quot;normal&quot; job contracted at IBM, which turned into a higher paying direct job with IBM, which then involved further raises.

Unless BA-holders are going into finance, they&#039;re almost certainly going to bounce around in some low-paying jobs. Perhaps even more disheartening is that these will be low-responsibility jobs, too. Because students have a difficult time imagining how they&#039;ll ever make the transition from temping to something more meaningful, it&#039;s tempting to latch onto the idea of a vocational or credential-building course of study: law school, MA in education, etc. What we need to make clear is that a PhD in the humanities is not a sound path to a specific career. The opportunity cost argument is a way to demonstrate that there aren&#039;t just risks, there are costs.

I don&#039;t buy the idea that my current academic colleagues would have spent those six or eight  years of their 20s and 30s temping or working at Starbucks or whatever. Intelligence aside, we&#039;re talking about people who are highly motivated and organized. If grad school in the humanities is your &quot;only option,&quot; you haven&#039;t really considered your options.

Mark, you must know that I&#039;m sympathetic to Whitson&#039;s argument. Thanks in large part to CHNM, my department is one of the few places where non-traditional career trajectories in public history and digital history are not second-rate consolation prizes for our graduate students, who are deeply involved in grant writing and project management. It remains to be seen how transferrable or replicable this environment will be at other institutions.

I would also like to address Holger&#039;s point about selectivity. If we encourage students only to attend the most selective programs, then they&#039;re more likely to get a good job. We already know this, anecdotally from looking around our departments, and of course from the excellent work of people at the AHA, etc. But who gets into elite graduate programs? As the same researchers have shown, people from elite undergraduate programs, of course. And who attends elite undergraduate programs? And now we&#039;re back to the Anthony Grafton&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;www.tnr.com/article/politics/humanities-and-inhumanities&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;updated version of the Aryan from Darien&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark and I park our cars in the same garage: the scarcity of tenure-track positions ought to be the single greatest deterrent to graduate study. And I’m virtually certain that this is the kind of “professor” Larry tells his students they’re not going to become. My interest in supplementing the scarcity argument with opportunity cost is that it forces students (and us) to think a little more imaginatively about the real costs of graduate study. I didn’t walk into a high-paying job directly out of college. I temped for something like $12 an hour, which turned into a $2000/month trial period learning more substantive technical things contracted at IBM, which turned into a $4000/month “normal” job contracted at IBM, which turned into a higher paying direct job with IBM, which then involved further raises.</p>
<p>Unless BA-holders are going into finance, they’re almost certainly going to bounce around in some low-paying jobs. Perhaps even more disheartening is that these will be low-responsibility jobs, too. Because students have a difficult time imagining how they’ll ever make the transition from temping to something more meaningful, it’s tempting to latch onto the idea of a vocational or credential-building course of study: law school, MA in education, etc. What we need to make clear is that a PhD in the humanities is not a sound path to a specific career. The opportunity cost argument is a way to demonstrate that there aren’t just risks, there are costs.</p>
<p>I don’t buy the idea that my current academic colleagues would have spent those six or eight  years of their 20s and 30s temping or working at Starbucks or whatever. Intelligence aside, we’re talking about people who are highly motivated and organized. If grad school in the humanities is your “only option,” you haven’t really considered your options.</p>
<p>Mark, you must know that I’m sympathetic to Whitson’s argument. Thanks in large part to CHNM, my department is one of the few places where non-traditional career trajectories in public history and digital history are not second-rate consolation prizes for our graduate students, who are deeply involved in grant writing and project management. It remains to be seen how transferrable or replicable this environment will be at other institutions.</p>
<p>I would also like to address Holger’s point about selectivity. If we encourage students only to attend the most selective programs, then they’re more likely to get a good job. We already know this, anecdotally from looking around our departments, and of course from the excellent work of people at the AHA, etc. But who gets into elite graduate programs? As the same researchers have shown, people from elite undergraduate programs, of course. And who attends elite undergraduate programs? And now we’re back to the Anthony Grafton’s <a href="www.tnr.com/article/politics/humanities-and-inhumanities" rel="nofollow">updated version of the Aryan from Darien</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Survivorship Bias, Survivor Guilt, and Opportunity Cost, Oh My! by Gary</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2011/11/16/survivorship-bias-survivor-guilt-and-opportunity-cost-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-20277</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=746#comment-20277</guid>
		<description>Many years ago, in the 1980s, I calculated my then opportunity-cost for my PhD in History. I reckoned up about $200,000.

I would just add to this discussion that for a fair lifetime comparison, you need to consider the realistic alternative jobs for people who choose a PhD in History. It is not &quot;manager at a Hooters&quot; but similar careers requiring post-graduate education, like law. (I have often talked with students torn between law school and grad school. I have never talked with a student torn between grad school and managing a Hooters.) These careers have starting pay much higher than academia and lifetime earnings far above those for all but a tiny, tiny handful academic stars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many years ago, in the 1980s, I calculated my then opportunity-cost for my PhD in History. I reckoned up about $200,000.</p>
<p>I would just add to this discussion that for a fair lifetime comparison, you need to consider the realistic alternative jobs for people who choose a PhD in History. It is not “manager at a Hooters” but similar careers requiring post-graduate education, like law. (I have often talked with students torn between law school and grad school. I have never talked with a student torn between grad school and managing a Hooters.) These careers have starting pay much higher than academia and lifetime earnings far above those for all but a tiny, tiny handful academic stars.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Survivorship Bias, Survivor Guilt, and Opportunity Cost, Oh My! by Sydney</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2011/11/16/survivorship-bias-survivor-guilt-and-opportunity-cost-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-20276</link>
		<dc:creator>Sydney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=746#comment-20276</guid>
		<description>I was going to add a few thoughts to Mark&#039;s comment, but they spun out of control, so I&#039;ve posted them here: http://moretowrite.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/grad-school-and-opportunity-cost/.

Short version: Mark is absolutely right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to add a few thoughts to Mark’s comment, but they spun out of control, so I’ve posted them here: <a href="http://moretowrite.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/grad-school-and-opportunity-cost/" rel="nofollow">http://moretowrite.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/grad-school-and-opportunity-cost/</a>.</p>
<p>Short version: Mark is absolutely right.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Survivorship Bias, Survivor Guilt, and Opportunity Cost, Oh My! by Grad school and opportunity cost &#124; One piece at a time</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2011/11/16/survivorship-bias-survivor-guilt-and-opportunity-cost-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-20275</link>
		<dc:creator>Grad school and opportunity cost &#124; One piece at a time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=746#comment-20275</guid>
		<description>[...] a nice round-up of the current rehashing of the should-you-or-shouldn&#8217;t-you question here, so I won&#8217;t bother recapping the whole thing. Besides, it should all feel more than familiar [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] a nice round-up of the current rehashing of the should-you-or-shouldn’t-you question here, so I won’t bother recapping the whole thing. Besides, it should all feel more than familiar […]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Survivorship Bias, Survivor Guilt, and Opportunity Cost, Oh My! by Mark Sample</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2011/11/16/survivorship-bias-survivor-guilt-and-opportunity-cost-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-20271</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Sample</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=746#comment-20271</guid>
		<description>I generally fall on the &quot;don&#039;t go to grad school and expect to become a tenure track professor&quot; side of things. But I&#039;m also wary of the opportunity costs argument. It is often based on subjective experience, the same as the survivorship bias. As a balance to your IBM example, I could talk about myself and my decision to leave my job to go to graduate school. I was a fully certified teacher, teaching at a private high school (this already had opportunity costs, since private high schools paid less than public schools). My graduate stipend was only a few thousand dollars less than my teaching salary. Throw in the summer courses I taught, some grants I worked on, and a few other enterprises, and I made more money in graduate school than out---at least if I had stayed teaching at that particular school.

Another point to consider is that whatever we&#039;re doing before graduate school (if we do go to graduate school) itself has opportunity costs. Teaching high school had opportunity costs. IBM, I&#039;m sure, had opportunity costs. But these costs are often non-monetary. Social costs. Emotional costs. Intellectual costs. Sanity costs. These hidden costs can eventually turn into financial costs as well (years of counseling to get over the meth habit I picked up while teaching high school chemistry, for example).*

In the end, the best argument to me for advising students against grad school remains the scarcity of tenure track jobs. There are plenty of numbers to support this fact and we need to share them with students. But more crucially, and more systemically, we need to retrain the way both ourselves and our students think about graduate school. The end result of a Ph.D. in the humanities need not be a tenure track position. I&#039;m thinking of Roger Whitson&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rogerwhitson.net/?p=1238&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent post&lt;/a&gt; on how graduate students and programs should reform themselves to address this new reality.

* Purely hypothetical. I never required counseling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally fall on the “don’t go to grad school and expect to become a tenure track professor” side of things. But I’m also wary of the opportunity costs argument. It is often based on subjective experience, the same as the survivorship bias. As a balance to your IBM example, I could talk about myself and my decision to leave my job to go to graduate school. I was a fully certified teacher, teaching at a private high school (this already had opportunity costs, since private high schools paid less than public schools). My graduate stipend was only a few thousand dollars less than my teaching salary. Throw in the summer courses I taught, some grants I worked on, and a few other enterprises, and I made more money in graduate school than out—at least if I had stayed teaching at that particular school.</p>
<p>Another point to consider is that whatever we’re doing before graduate school (if we do go to graduate school) itself has opportunity costs. Teaching high school had opportunity costs. IBM, I’m sure, had opportunity costs. But these costs are often non-monetary. Social costs. Emotional costs. Intellectual costs. Sanity costs. These hidden costs can eventually turn into financial costs as well (years of counseling to get over the meth habit I picked up while teaching high school chemistry, for example).*</p>
<p>In the end, the best argument to me for advising students against grad school remains the scarcity of tenure track jobs. There are plenty of numbers to support this fact and we need to share them with students. But more crucially, and more systemically, we need to retrain the way both ourselves and our students think about graduate school. The end result of a Ph.D. in the humanities need not be a tenure track position. I’m thinking of Roger Whitson’s <a href="http://www.rogerwhitson.net/?p=1238" rel="nofollow">recent post</a> on how graduate students and programs should reform themselves to address this new reality.</p>
<p>* Purely hypothetical. I never required counseling.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Survivorship Bias, Survivor Guilt, and Opportunity Cost, Oh My! by Holger</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2011/11/16/survivorship-bias-survivor-guilt-and-opportunity-cost-oh-my/comment-page-1/#comment-20263</link>
		<dc:creator>Holger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=746#comment-20263</guid>
		<description>Hi Sean,

I still don&#039;t quite get the opportunity cost argument. It basically assumes that a high-paying job such as the one you had would be the obvious -- or at least the average -- alternative to doing a humanities PhD. That doesn&#039;t strike me as particularly realistic. I would presume that many of the kinds of students that are drawn to academia would be attracted to the kinds of jobs that are often less secure and less lucrative than working for IBM. Personally, before I started my PhD, I temped for two years while working in film and theatre, and that&#039;s what I would have continued to do if I hadn&#039;t gone back to grad school. (I was making a tiny bit more money in that &quot;career&quot; than as a grad student, but I also had higher living expenses.)

But I also don&#039;t understand why opportunity cost is an argument against going to grad school at all -- which is how Cebula seems to use it. It may be something we should alert our students to and it&#039;s another argument for being selective in choosing where to do one&#039;s grad work. But do you regret having given up your IBM job? Would you regret it if you hadn&#039;t got a tenure track position? Would you ever consider going back to your old career? (All of which is to say, I don&#039;t quite get why the &quot;cost&quot; part is more important than the &quot;opportunity&quot; part.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sean,</p>
<p>I still don’t quite get the opportunity cost argument. It basically assumes that a high-paying job such as the one you had would be the obvious — or at least the average — alternative to doing a humanities PhD. That doesn’t strike me as particularly realistic. I would presume that many of the kinds of students that are drawn to academia would be attracted to the kinds of jobs that are often less secure and less lucrative than working for IBM. Personally, before I started my PhD, I temped for two years while working in film and theatre, and that’s what I would have continued to do if I hadn’t gone back to grad school. (I was making a tiny bit more money in that “career” than as a grad student, but I also had higher living expenses.)</p>
<p>But I also don’t understand why opportunity cost is an argument against going to grad school at all — which is how Cebula seems to use it. It may be something we should alert our students to and it’s another argument for being selective in choosing where to do one’s grad work. But do you regret having given up your IBM job? Would you regret it if you hadn’t got a tenure track position? Would you ever consider going back to your old career? (All of which is to say, I don’t quite get why the “cost” part is more important than the “opportunity” part.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Teaching with Zotero Groups, or Eating My Own Dog Food, Part 1 by ProfHacker - The Chronicle of Higher Education</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2009/08/07/teaching-with-zotero-groups-or-eating-my-own-dog-food-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-19530</link>
		<dc:creator>ProfHacker - The Chronicle of Higher Education</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=142#comment-19530</guid>
		<description>[...] in my upper-level seminar to contribute to a class blog and to use Zotero Groups (thanks to Sean Takats for the latter [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] in my upper-level seminar to contribute to a class blog and to use Zotero Groups (thanks to Sean Takats for the latter […]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Time Shifting and Historical Research by Digital Technology and the History of Higher Education &#124; Urban Oasis</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2011/04/20/time-shifting-and-historical-research/comment-page-1/#comment-19505</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Technology and the History of Higher Education &#124; Urban Oasis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=630#comment-19505</guid>
		<description>[...] flow of digital information that historians will rely upon. For a post on changing practices, see this analysis of time shift by Sean Takats. But for recent grad students, you probably were swamped by information your first [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] flow of digital information that historians will rely upon. For a post on changing practices, see this analysis of time shift by Sean Takats. But for recent grad students, you probably were swamped by information your first […]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Test Your Digital Humanities Knowledge by richard m davis</title>
		<link>http://quintessenceofham.org/2010/11/16/test-your-dh-knowledge/comment-page-1/#comment-19120</link>
		<dc:creator>richard m davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://quintessenceofham.org/?p=403#comment-19120</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Digital Humanities sits at the crossroads of many disciplines! MT @melissaterras &quot;Test Your DH Knowledge&quot; by @stakats: http://bit.ly/qvR1vk&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Digital Humanities sits at the crossroads of many disciplines! MT @melissaterras “Test Your DH Knowledge” by @stakats: <a href="http://bit.ly/qvR1vk" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/qvR1vk</a></span></span></span></p>
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